You are not going to believe this, but I’m not altogether sure I believe in Hell in the sense of fire that burns and tortures humans forever and ever without end. It is a subject that has been bothering me for a few years and I have challenged a few people who I respect to hear me out and give me their opinion on the subject, but I have been severely disappointed that not one person would hear me out, read my notes, or offer insight about how I might be right or wrong. Even close family members have brushed me off or blatantly dismissed me. In some cases even looking down on me for considering the possibilities. It seems that some Christians get to a place where they are comfortable with what they believe or have been taught and they simply refuse to hear any more about it.
Lord, let me never get to a point where I stop trying to understand Your Word; and even more that I never get to a place where I cannot share or sharpen iron with a fellow believer.
THERE I SAID IT.
Now that my eyes have been opened, and I take the time to read and re-read all the passages of the bible that refer to hell I am not convinced God ever intended for humans to burn in torturous hell for all of eternity; unceasing. Seriously, just look up the Greek and Hebrew meaning for some of these simple terms. (outlined below)
I feel like you are about to just walk away because this is just too wild for you but bear with me and I will share a few notes with you and you can decide for yourself what they mean and if you don’t agree, tell me why (and back it up). I’m not afraid to admit when I am wrong. In fact, Im starving for feedback on the whole subject.
If God died for everyone then ALL souls have been redeemed
God makes Himself available to ALL.
The bible DOES NOT SAY -unbelievers are immortal.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The Greek word for PERISH means TO BE DESTROYED.
“BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE”..in this passage it is one OR the other, life OR destruction. BUT NOT BOTH.
Doesn’t is stand to reason that destruction is a final blow? The word perish means final death, utter destruction. If God had meant eternal torture, then wouldn’t God have said “everlasting life OR eternal torture by fire”?
Luke 6:36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
Ephesians 4:26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
Ephesians 4:26-27 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil.
Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
If all the verses in the bible about doing well unto others is true, then how does this fit into a God who would allow eternal torment?
For me, as of now, it Doesn’t.
Righteous people are not called to dwell on their anger they are called to PUT IT AWAY. (Eph 4:31)
GOD IS SLOW TO ANGER
Revelations 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
THIS IS DIRECTED ONLY TO:
a. The Devil
b. The Beast
c. The False Prophet
AGAIN, it does not say HUMANS or HUMAN SOULS were thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20: 11-15 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
In this passage death and Hades are NOT PEOPLE. Then in vs. 15 it says all whose names are not written in the book of life..but it DOESN’T say what happens to them. Are they burned up? Are they tortured eternally? Something else?
The previous verse (vs. 14) it specifically said there would be torment forever and ever.
Death is everlasting, not SLOW DEATH, as in torture forever..but DEATH as in the end of life. Permanent exit from life in body and soul.
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Parable of the sheep and the goats. Jesus said to the goats –depart from me into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
NOTICE IT DOES NOT SAY: “for the unbelievers” so it is possible the devil burns forever but the unbelievers do not? ..because maybe they are “consumed” by the fire?
If the devil is tormented forever and ever, is it possible that his otherworldliness can persist in those conditions. But humans cannot?
THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE ANSWER TO THIS. If there is, please, I’m literally begging you to show it to me.
Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Sheep go to the everlasting life BUT the others go to everlasting punishment.
The bible says the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.
The Lake of Fire is described as the 2nd death.
There is no verse that suggests that humans are awake and being perpetually tortured by fire.
Many of us are taught that death=Separation from God.
But the bible makes no mention of death meaning separation from God…in Greek, Hebrew or Latin. SO WE HAVE TO ASK WHERE THAT CONCEPT CAME FROM?
In Genesis, God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the forbidden tree they would surely die…but if they ate of the tree of life (which was symbolic for God himself) then they would have eternal life.
They DID eat of the tree, but they did not die instantly; but ultimately, they did die. Can we assume that if they had never eaten from the forbidden fruit that God would have allowed them eternal life? They did eat of the forbidden tree and as a result their relationship with God in the garden was dramatically changed. They ran from and hid from God. So, in this way, there was separation from God…and if eating of the forbidden tree meant death, then they also gained a death sentence to be carried out later?
Now, back to Revelations–2nd death:
We assume that we die an earthy death, then appear before God for the judgement, and are sentenced either to life with God OR we are sent to the “Lake of Fire” which is “the 2nd death”.
So, which is it? Death is death of the body but not the soul? or death of both? or death of body but soul lives on in perpetual fiery agony?
1 John 5:11-12 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
If our soul lives on in perpetual agony, wouldn’t this verse (above) say something other than “whoever does not have the son of God does not have life”?
1 Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
If God alone is IMMORTAL then how can I gain immortality? Look back to 1 John 5:11-12 HE WHO HAS THE SON HAS LIFE. So again, believers can have immortality through Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ then there is no immortality…hence, no eternal flames or perpetual agony. Right?
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
It seems to me that this verse (above) clearly says unbelievers don’t get to know the full extent of what will happen till judgement.
Just because God is immortal, does not mean that humans are. God is a lot of things that humans are not, He is omnipotent, omniscient…etc. WE ARE NOT.
Matt 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Again, it says (above) there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but it doesn’t say that this will last forever. My whole life this verse was used to make me think unbelieves would be subject to fire and gnashing of teeth that could never be escaped..but it doesn’t actually say that.
Here in Matthew 25:30 it DOES NOT say for eternity, it could be a brief encounter for all we know? Could be that middle place between earthly death and judgement? Could be after judgement but before the 2nd death? It could be a brief period before the final death?
Matthew 13: 48-50 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Notice here the “BAD” fish are thrown into the fire. And again. No indication that they will burn forever in torment. Just as the verse with the wheat and tares. That might be where they go from judgement, but where does it say that this is where they will remain? If this is where they go, and there is fire, couldn’t it just as easily mean they are consumed by that fire? What purpose would it serve God to keep human soul around that don’t love Him? Would a loving and fair God do that? Would a loving and fair God even want to have to see that forever and ever?
Matthew 13:24-30 By no means one of Jesus’ most popular parables, the parable of the wheat tares (also known as the parable of the weeds) has a somewhat harrowing tone. In the story, Jesus compares heaven to a man who goes out and sows good seed. However, the enemy sneaks into the field at night and sows weeds. Both the weeds and the wheat sprout at the same time. Trouble is, the workers have a hard time distinguishing between the two. The owner of the field encourages his servants to wait to uproot the weeds until the harvest. During the harvest, they will throw the weeds into the fire.
Again, no indication of the wheat surviving the fire. (above)
Matthew 3:12 describes an unquenchable fire. UNQUENCHABLE, as in BURNS EVERYTHING WE FEED IT; but the actual fire does not go out…no indication in either of these verses that the goats or the wheat survives the fire. YES, they get burned, consumed, killed, disintegrated, and probably turn to ashes..but no indication that they suffer or live on.
What do we normally expect when we burn something? We expect it to transform and slowly turn to ashes and maybe even get caught up in the wind and dissipate into nothingness..or dust…just as in Genesis, from dust we came.
NOTE: EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT could just as easily refer to a final and everlasting verdict of death but it DOES NOT SAY that the PUNISHING would be everlasting. If we die and cease to exist, that is PERMANENT AND EVERLASTING. BUT if it had said a PUNISHING that would be eternal that’s a whole other thing.
Matthew 25:46 DOES NOT SAY TORMENT FOREVER.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 says “These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.”
Re-read that–the destruction is from THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD…FOREVER. The punishment is the separation from the LORD..not the punishing destruction. It does not say the TORTURE will be everlasting. For all we know God may allow death before this and only the body or soul is put into the fire. Think about it this way, if you created a living person, but things didnt turn out so good, would you want to watch it suffer forever and ever without end?
Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.
Revelations 14: 8-13
8.A second angel followed and said, “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’[a] which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.” 9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
NOTE: THE SMOKE of their torment rises forever and ever….NOT THEIR TORMENT…and this happens in the presence of the LORD/Lamb.
So this is NOT hell even though it mentions fire and brimstone. It is important to note that the one other place that even mentions fire and brimstone is also in Revelations and in in relation to coming out of the horses mouth. (Rev 9)
Isaiah 34:1-17
Come near, you nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples!
Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, the world, and all that comes out of it!
2 The Lord is angry with all nations; his wrath is on all their armies.
He will totally destroy[a] them, he will give them over to slaughter.
3 Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will stink; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. 4 All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. 5 My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. 6 The sword of the Lord is bathed in blood, it is covered with fat—the blood of lambs and goats, fat from the kidneys of rams. For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in the land of Edom. 7 And the wild oxen will fall with them, the bull calves and the great bulls. Their land will be drenched with blood, and the dust will be soaked with fat. 8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; it’s smoke will rise forever.
From generation to generation, it will lie desolate. No one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation. 12 Her nobles will have nothing there to be called a kingdom, all her princes will vanish away. 13 Thorns will overrun her citadels, nettles and brambles her strongholds. She will become a haunt for jackals, a home for owls. 14 Desert creatures will meet with hyenas, and wild goats will bleat to each other; there the night creatures will also lie down and find for themselves places of rest. 15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the Lord and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. 17 He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation.
THIS PASSAGE OF ISAIAH IS MIMICKING or REFERENCING the verse from ISAIAH the same as in REVELATIONS 14:11 IT is NOT A STAND ALONE VERSE..and that’s important.
Smoke going up forever and ever is not an indication of torment that goes on forever and ever..JUST THE SMOKE. Think about Sodom and Gomorrah. Here we are thousands of years later and we are still well aware of what happened there..the “smoke” of that story lives on to eternity. The city burned and was destroyed but the ruins remained. So how do we relate this to the human condition as it refers to eternal life?
Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Again, this ONLY says the fire never goes out, it does not say there is humans walking around in the fire in perpetual agony. Also, very important, this is another reference to Isaiah 66:1-24 It could just as well mean that the place where the fire never goes out is always there, always ready…not that whoever enters will burn endlessly.
Isaiah is not talking about HELL (or “Gehana”)
Mark is saying that there WILL BE DEAD bodies and the righteous will see them.
Their “worms” will not die. –image a dead body being eaten by worms…when the body is consumed by the worms, the worms do not die, they just move on to their next meal source. This is descriptive language to further indicate the actual death of the body.
To say that THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED is not necessarily an eternal fire, only that no matter how you try to put it out, it will burn until the will of God extinguishes it. Humans cant put the fire out. It will burn and consume whatever is thrown into it. Also, just because it cant be quenched does not mean it will burn forever…God can put it out if He wants to.
Then there’s the verse in Jeremiah 7:20 that says “This is my wrath, which can never be quenched.”
“Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place—on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your land—and it will burn and not be quenched.”
Meaning: When Gods wrath is unleashed people cant stop it, ONLY GOD CAN when HIS purpose is done.
Matthew 10: 1-42 Do not fear those who can kill your body but fear the one who can kill both body AND soul.
If the soul is dead isn’t that a final death? ..and why would God say that we should fear the one who can kill both body and soul if ALL souls lived in perpetuity?
Are there levels of torment equal to how sinful a person is?
How can humans be happy and at peace in heaven if we are aware of other souls suffering in perpetuity?
It is reasonable to believe that God wants to eradicate sin?
What does God want to happen in all of this?
Is a God who loves us capable of eternal torment while still being about love, sacrifice and grace?
2 Peter 3:9 says God is not willing that ANY should perish. (theres that word perish again)
Are there levels of heaven and hell? (yes) Is each level assigned a different purpose? (yes)
What about the verse from Luke 16:24 with Lazarus?
1 John says God is love, it does not say God is wrath.
Colossians 1:16. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
NOTE: ALL WILL BE RECONCILED. ALL.
If all this is just one big game and God paid the price for everyone but Satan swoops in and steals a percentage of those that God already paid for then God got ripped off/cheated by Satan…but that is not consistent with who God is. BUT IT IS CONSISTENT WITH FREE WILL. Love is not real love if it is automated or robotic…or forced. God paid the price but if we don’t get on the bus then we don’t get the ride.
Ephesians 1:1-23 God will gather ALL.
Phil 2:1-30 One day, ALL will bow, but “TO THE GLORY OF GOD”
Is it plausible to think humans in a state of perpetual torture will bow to God to the GLORY OF GOD? No.
Hell’s inhabitants -COMMON BELIEF
It’s important to note who and what are cast into the lake of fire: The beast and the false prophet (Rev. 19:20); Satan (20:10); anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life (20:15); the unrepentant wicked (21:8); and ultimately Death and Hades (20:14).
The fires of hell devour wicked humans and evil spirits. As the apostle Paul writes, those who don’t know God and those who do not obey the gospel “will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the Lord’s presence …” (2 Thess. 1:9)
Again, eternal destruction sounds more like a 2nd and final death than it does eternal torment.
SHEOL:
eol (/ˈʃiː. oʊl, -əl/ SHEE-ohl, -əl; Hebrew: שְׁאוֹל Šəʾōl) in the Hebrew Bible is a place of still darkness which lies after death. Although not well defined in the Tanakh, Sheol in this view was a subterranean underworld where the souls of the dead went after the body died.
Matthew 10:28. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body.
Psalms 49:14 14 They are like sheep and are destined to die; death will be their shepherd (but the upright will prevail over them in the morning). Their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.
Hades is used for Sheol, denoting a dark region of the dead. Tartarus, originally denoting an abyss far below Hades and the place of punishment in the lower world, later lost its distinctness and became almost a synonym for Hades.
“Bosom of Abraham” refers to the place of comfort in the biblical Sheol (or Hades in the Greek Septuagint version of the Hebrew scriptures from around 200 BC, and therefore so described in the New Testament) where the righteous dead abided prior to Jesus’ resurrection.
1 Samuel describes Yahweh as the one who brings souls down to Sheol, and 2 Samuel further cements Sheol as humanity’s ultimate destination, post-mortem. 1 Kings uses “going down to Sheol” as a metaphor for death, describing those who go down to it both “in peace” and “in blood”.
The “heart of the earth” like “the heart of the sea” (Jonah 2:4 LXX) refers to Sheol. When Jonah says that “I went down to the earth” (Jonah 2:7 LXX), he is again referring to Sheol (pp. 19–20).
Sheol
Old Testament. The Hebrew word seol [l/a.v], “Sheol, ” refers to the grave or the abode of the dead ( Psalms 88:3 Psalms 88:5 ). Through much of the Old Testament period, it was believed that all went one place, whether human or animal ( Psalms 49:12 Psalms 49:14 Psalms 49:20 ), whether righteous or wicked ( Eccl 9:2-3 ). No one could avoid Sheol ( Psalm 49:9 ; 89:48 ), which was thought to be down in the lowest parts of the earth ( Deut 32:22 ;
Why refer to it as a grave if there are people alive there? (whether body or soul or both) ?
Deuteronomy 32:22 22 For a fire will be kindled by my wrath, one that burns down to the realm of the dead below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains.
1 Sam 28:11-15 ; This says those below are DEAD?
1 Samuel 28:11-15 11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth.” 14 “What does he look like?” he asked. “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. 15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
Job 26:5 Because this is old Testament..I need to dig deeper but wasn’t there a different allocation for the dead in the Old Testament, prior to Jesus death on the cross?? So this would be in reference to Pre-Sacrifice?
Job 26:5 5 “The dead are in deep anguish, those beneath the waters and all that live in them.
I honestly don’t know how to reconcile this verse in the context of dead meaning dead.
Psalms 86:13 13 For great is your love toward me; you have delivered me from the depths, from the realm of the dead.
Why say the realm of the dead if souls are not actually dead?
Ezekiel 31:14-16 14 Therefore no other trees by the waters are ever to tower proudly on high, lifting their tops above the thick foliage. No other trees so well-watered are ever to reach such a height; they are all destined for death, for the earth below, among mortals who go down to the realm of the dead. 15 “ ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day it was brought down to the realm of the dead I covered the deep springs with mourning for it; I held back its streams, and its abundant waters were restrained. Because of it I clothed Lebanon with gloom, and all the trees of the field withered away. 16 I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below. 17 They too, like the great cedar, had gone down to the realm of the dead, to those killed by the sword, along with the armed men who lived in its shade among the nations. 18 “ ‘Which of the trees of Eden can be compared with you in splendor and majesty? Yet you, too, will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the earth below; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword. “ ‘This is Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the Sovereign LORD.’ Unlike this world, Sheol is devoid of love, hate, envy, work, thought, knowledge, and wisdom
Ecclesiastes 9:6 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.
If hell is constant torture then how can it be a place void of love and hate? If you were in constant torture wouldn’t you develop hate? ..or some kind of responsive emotion or action of some kind?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Descriptions are bleak: There is no light ( Job 10:21-22 ;
Doesn’t this seem to say there is NOTHING..if our body or soul lived on in torment wouldn’t we at least have the knowledge of pain or suffering or of what we did to earn such a fate?
Job 10:21-22 21 before I go to the place of no return, to the land of gloom and utter darkness, 22 to the land of deepest night, of utter darkness and disorder, where even the light is like darkness.” 17:13 ; “Even the light is like darkness”…where except death can you shine a light and it not be noticed?
Job 17:13 13 If the only home I hope for is the grave, if I spread out my bed in the realm of darkness,
Psalms 88:6 6 You have put me in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths.
Psalms 88:12 ; Does the reference to “the lowest pit” imply there are other pits not as low?
Psalms 88:12 12 Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?
143:3 ), Where is oblivion? Is it in death? If our soul lives on then the use of the word “oblivious” here means we are not tortured?
Psalms 143:3 3 The enemy pursues me, he crushes me to the ground; he makes me dwell in the darkness like those long dead.
no remembrance ( Psalm 6:5 ; “Like those long dead”….because maybe DEAD MEANS DEAD?
Psalms 6:5 5 Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?
88:12 ; “from the grave” If our soul lives on..why would there be a reference to a grave?
Psalms 88:12 12 Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?
Eccl 9:5 ), Again, everything about this verse suggests NOTHINGNESS..not eternal torture?
Ecclesiastes 9:5 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.
no praise of God ( Psalm 6:5 ; 5 Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?
30:9 ; This one just flatly states “AMONG the DEAD.!! Are we to assume that DEAD does or does not me DEAD?
Psalms 30:9 9 “What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?
88:10-12 ; Or we could ask WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO TO LET MY SOUL LIVE FOREVER IN AGONY IF I STILL DON’T PRAISE GOD? WILL A TORTURED SOUL PRAISE GOD? NO, so why keep a soul around if they are basically a nuisance who doesn’t praise the Lord.. Why would God want this lingering ugliness?
Psalms 88:10-12 10 Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11 Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ? 12 Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?
Psalms 115:17 17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence;
IT IS THE LIVING WHO PRAISE THE LORD!!!!
Isaiah 38:18 18 For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
— in fact, no sound at all
Psalms 94:17 17 Unless the LORD had given me help, I would soon have dwelt in the silence of death.
AGAIN, the SILENCE OF DEATH.. Would there be silence if it was a place of tortured souls?
Psalms 115:17 17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence; Its inhabitants are weak, trembling shades
Job 26:5 5 “The dead are in deep anguish, those beneath the waters and all that live in them.
Psalm 88:10-12 ; NOW HERE IS ONE IM GONNA HAVE TO LOOK UP cant make it out???
Psalms 88:10-12 10 Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11 Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction? 12 Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?
Isaiah 14:9-10 9 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you— all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones— all those who were kings over the nations. 10 They will all respond, they will say to you, “You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us.” …who can never hope to escape from its gates ( Job 10:21 )
Not sure about this one either, seem to contradict some of the others..need to dig deeper.
Job 10:21 21 before I go to the place of no return, to the land of gloom and utter darkness,
Job 17:13-16 13 If the only home I hope for is the grave, if I spread out my bed in the realm of darkness, 14 if I say to corruption, ‘You are my father,’ and to the worm, ‘My mother’ or ‘My sister,’ 15 where then is my hope— who can see any hope for me? 16 Will it go down to the gates of death? Will we descend together into the dust?”
“Descend into dust” ..implies death??
Isaiah 38:10 10 I said, “In the prime of my life must I go through the gates of death and be robbed of the rest of my years?” Sheol is like a ravenous beast that swallows the living without being sated (Robbed of the rest of my years)…would a person be robbed of years if their soul lived on?
Isaiah 5:14 14 Therefore Death expands its jaws, opening wide its mouth; into it will descend their nobles and masses with all their brawlers and revelers.
Some thought the dead were cut off from God ..but again, this says they are DEAD. DEATH expands it jaws.
Psalms 88:3-5 3 I am overwhelmed with troubles and my life draws near to death. 4 I am counted among those who go down to the pit; I am like one without strength. 5 I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more, who are cut off from your care.
SET APART WITH THE DEAD.. Seems like dead means dead here too?
Isaiah 38:11 11 I said, “I will not again see the LORD himself in the land of the living; no longer will I look on my fellow man, or be with those who now dwell in this world. while others believed that God’s presence reached even to Sheol.
Psalms 139:8 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. Toward the end of the Old Testament, God revealed that there will be a resurrection of the dead.
Now this one is interesting… in the depths YOU ARE THERE?? WHO IS THERE?
Isaiah 26:19 19 But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.
Sheol will devour no longer; instead God will swallow up Death ( Isa 25:8 ).
Isaiah 25:8 8 he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The LORD has spoken.
The faithful will be rewarded with everlasting life while the rest will experience eternal contempt ( Dan 12:2 ).
Daniel 12:2 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
This theology developed further in the intertestamental period.
The New Testament. By the time of Jesus, it was common for Jews to believe that the righteous dead go to a place of comfort while the wicked go to Hades (“Hades” normally translates “Sheol” in the LXX), a place of torment ( Luke 16:22-23 ).
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Similarly, in Christianity, believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord
2 Corinthians 5:8 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
AWAY FROM THE BODY–so just the soul of man.
Philippians 1:23 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;
Hades is a hostile place whose gates cannot prevail against the church
Matthew 16:18 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
In fact, Jesus himself holds the keys of Death and Hades
Revelation 1:18 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Death and Hades will ultimately relinquish their dead and be cast into the lake of fire ( Rev 20:13-14 ). Because this is a verse from Revelation, is it a stretch to guess or assume that this final fire is the one in which God “renovates” earth in preparation for a new earth?
Revelation 20:13-14 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
This is interesting (above) in that it speaks of death and Hades apart from what is “in it” then says what was IN IT was judged..then death and Hades was thrown into the fire..doesn’t say with ALL THAT WAS IN IT. ????
The fact that theology develops within the Old Testament and between the Old Testament and the New Testament does not mean that the Bible is contradictory or contains errors. It only indicates progressive revelation, that God revealed more of himself and his plan of salvation as time went on. That some Old Testament saints believed in Sheol, while the New Testament teaches clearly about heaven and hell, is nor more of a problem than that the Old Testament contains a system of atonement by animal sacrifice now made obsolete in Christ ( Heb 10:4-10 ) or that the Old Testament teaches God is one ( Deut 6:4 ) while the New Testament reveals a Trinity.
The different terms used in the Bible for heaven and hell—sheol, hades, gehenna, the lake of fire,
The lake of fire is a term used in only a few verses near the end in the book of Revelation (Revelation 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8). Jesus refers to Gehenna/hell several times (Matthew 10:28; Mark 9:43; Luke 12:5), as well as an “outer darkness” (Matthew 8:12; 22:13). These all seem to be different references to the same thing. Hell, the lake of fire, and outer darkness are all terms describing the final destination of those who reject Christ. This is a state of complete separation from God, never-ending and inescapable.
According to the Bible, the lake of fire is the “second death.” This is the ultimate consequence of sin, which is to be totally cut off from God. The lake of fire will be a place of perpetual suffering and misery. Scripture indicates that every person whose name is not in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). The lake of fire will also be the fate of the beast and false prophet from the end times (Revelation 19:20), as well as Satan himself (Revelation 20:10). The Bible indicates that both death and Hades—the temporary destination of the unsaved dead—will also be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14).
Even though hell is described using terminology such as fire and flame, it is not meant to be thought of as only a physical place. Hell is described as a place of “torment,” not “torture,” initially intended for purely spiritual beings (Matthew 25:41). In fact, the worst aspect of hell is an eternity of conscious, guilty, shameful separation from God and all forms of goodness. In that sense, hell is far worse than a literal inferno; a purely physical hell is actually not as terrible as what the Bible describes.
In other words, the Bible tells us what hell is “like,” using symbols such as the lake of fire. But Scripture does not tell us too much about what hell “is,” in direct terms.
BUT, if HELL IS A SEPERATION FROM GOD..COULDNT THAT ALSO MEAN DEATH?? DEATH IS A SEPERATION FROM GOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
Fire is often used as a symbol of God’s judgment. The symbolism stems from real-life examples of God’s use of fire to punish the wicked—the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24), for example, and the destruction of Elijah’s enemies (2 Kings 1:12). Prophets often described God with a stream of fire coming from His throne, a symbol of His holy punishment of sin (e.g., Daniel 7:10; Isaiah 30:33). The fact that the destiny of those who reject God is described as a “lake of fire” speaks to how serious the judgment is. When God finally abolishes sin and death, all sinners will be condemned to the worst possible fate, described in the Bible using the most horrific terms.
I believe that if we are going to state as if for fact anything about the bible, we need to look at it from several viewpoints. We need to see it from every perspective. We need to hear what others have to say and we need to pray and ask God to reveal HIS truth to us in HIS timing.
Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom—are the subject of much debate and can be confusing.
The word paradise is used as a synonym for heaven (2 Corinthians 12:3–4;
2 Corinthians 12:3–4 — The New International Version (NIV)3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
Revelation 2:7 pHe who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. qTo the one who conquers I will grant to eat of rthe tree of life, which is in sthe paradise of God.’
When Jesus was dying on the cross and one of the thieves being crucified with Him asked Him for mercy, Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise”
Jesus knew that His death was imminent and that He would soon be in heaven with His Father. Therefore, Jesus used paradise as a synonym for heaven, and the word has come to be associated with any place of ideal loveliness and delight.
Abraham’s bosom is referred to only once in the Bible—in the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19–31). Abraham’s bosom was used in the Talmud as a synonym for heaven. The image in the story is of Lazarus reclining at a table leaning on Abraham’s breast—as John leaned on Jesus’ breast at the Last Supper—at the heavenly banquet. The point of the story is that wicked men will see the righteous in a happy state, while they themselves are in torment, and that a “great gulf” that can never be spanned exists between them (Luke 16:26). Abraham’s bosom is obviously a place of peace, rest, and joy—in other words, paradise.
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means “the place of the dead” or “the place of departed souls/spirits.” The New Testament Greek equivalent to sheol is hades, which is also a general reference to “the place of the dead.” The Greek word gehenna is used in the New Testament for “hell” and is derived from the Hebrew word hinnom.
Other Scriptures in the New Testament indicated that sheol/hades is a temporary place where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection. The souls of the righteous, at death, go directly into the presence of God—the part of sheol called “heaven,” “paradise,” or “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23).
The lake of fire, mentioned only in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10, 14-15, is the final hell, the place of eternal punishment for all unrepentant rebels, both angelic and human (Matthew 25:41). ..but according to Steve Gregg (at the top of this document) only angels suffer the eternal punishing..but humans possibly suffer only the cessation of life.
Revelation 19:20 20 And the beast was captured, and with it gthe false prophet hwho in its presence5 had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who iworshiped its image. These two were jthrown alive into the lake of kfire that burns with sulfur.
Revelation 20:10 10 and the devil lwho had deceived them was mthrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where nthe beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
NOTICE–here in this verse..only the beast and the false prophet are mentioned…not humans.
Revelation 20:14–15 14 Then uDeath and Hades vwere thrown into the lake of fire. This is wthe second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, xhe was thrown into the lake of fire….
But again, thrown into the lake of fire COULD BE and burned up to cease existence because when it referred to the beast it said eternal..but not in this passage.
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, e‘Depart from me, you fcursed, into gthe eternal fire prepared for hthe devil and his angels.
As if that were not enough, as I was reading through Psalms this week these few verses struck me with enough pause to come and add them here for inclusion into my notes on the subject of hell.
Psalm 115. 17The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor any who go down into silence. (It says SILENCE..not gnashing of teeth–SILENCE. Would eternal life in hell be silent?..but death, I bet death and extinction is very silent.)
Psalm119:175 LET MY SOUL LIVE AND I SHALL PRAISE YOU. (Does this imply there are scenarios where the soul does not live?)
Psalm121:7. 7The LORD shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul. (Why say your soul will be preserved if there is no option for it to be terminated permanently?)
IS THE FIRE ALL CONSUMING? OR DOES IT BURN UP AND KEEP BURNING?
It is described as a place of burning sulfur, and those in it experience eternal, unspeakable agony of an unrelenting nature (Luke 16:24; Mark 9:45-46). Those who have rejected Christ and are in the temporary abode of the dead in hades/sheol have the lake of fire as their final destination.
But those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life should have no fear of this terrible fate. By faith in Christ and His blood shed on the cross for our sins, we are destined to live eternally in the presence of God.
I have more notes…so much more, but this seems like enough to get started. Please, tell me what you think?